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Experience? Never Mind.

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247b-1_max50

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Posted 2 months ago

 

 The Washington Post




Monday, September 1, 2008


 


In a famous example of ideological flexibility, the American Communist Party changed its mind completely about Adolph Hitler in 1939, when he signed a deal with Joseph Stalin. Previously, they hadn't cared for him much. Suddenly, he looked pretty good. Two years later, when Hitler ratted on the deal and invaded the Soviet Union, the Communists changed their minds again. Both times, it took only days.


Now, thanks to the Internet, the same kind of conversion can take place in hours or even minutes.And although it's hard to find many Communists around these days, we happen to have just the party for the job.

It seems like only yesterday that the Republican Party was complaining about Barack Obama's lack of foreign policy "experience." (As a matter of fact, when I started writing this, it actually was yesterday.) Even now, the Republican National Committee's main anti-Obama Web site has the witty address http://www.notready08.com. The contrast in experience, especially foreign policy experience, between John McCain and Obama was supposed to be the central focus of McCain's campaign.



But that's so five minutes ago, before Sarah Palin. Already, conservative pundits have come up with creative explanations for McCain's choice of a vice presidential running mate with essentially no foreign policy experience. First prize (so far) goes to Michael Barone, who notes on the U.S. News and World Report blog that "Alaska is the only state with a border with Russia. And it is the only state with territory, in the Aleutian Islands, occupied by the enemy in World War II." I think we need to know what Sarah Palin has done, in her year and change as governor of Alaska, to protect the freedom of the Aleutian Islands before deciding how many foreign policy experience credits she deserves on their account.


The official response to the question of experience emerged within hours and is only slightly more plausible: She may not have foreign policy experience, but -- unlike Obama, Joe Biden or even McCain -- she has executive experience. Why, before her stint as governor of Alaska, population 670,000, she was mayor of a town of 9,000. Remember when the Republicans mocked Bill Clinton for being governor of a "small state"? That would be Arkansas, population 2.8 million. As it happens, 670,000 is the population of metropolitan Little Rock.


The whole "experience" debate is silly. Under our system of government, there is only one job that gives you both executive and foreign policy experience, and that's the one McCain and Obama are running for. Nevertheless, it's a hardy perennial: If your opponent is a governor, you accuse him of lacking foreign policy experience. If he or she is a member of Congress, you say this person has never run anything. And if, by chance, your opponent has done both, you say that he or she is a "professional politician." When Republicans aren't complaining about someone's lack of experience, they are calling for term limits.


That's why the important point about Palin's lack of experience isn't about Palin. It's about McCain. And the question is not how his choice of Palin might complicate his ability to use the "experience" issue or whether he will have to drop experience as an issue. It's not about the proper role of experience as an issue. It's not about experience at all. It's about honesty. The question should be whether McCain -- and all the other Republicans who have been going on for months about Obama's dangerous lack of foreign policy experience -- ever meant a word of it. And the answer is apparently not. Many conservative pundits woke up this morning fully prepared to harp on Obama's alleged lack of experience for months more. Now they face the choice of either executing a Communist-style U-turn ("Experience? Feh! Who needs it?") or trying to keep a straight face while touting the importance of having been mayor of a town of 9,000 if you later find yourself president of a nation of 300 million.


We all know that modern political campaigns choose their issues from the cafeteria line, after market-testing them and then having them professionally framed. Rarely, though, are we offered such a clear and unarguable example. How could anyone truly believe that Barack Obama's background and job history are inadequate experience for a president and simultaneously believe that Sarah Palin's background and job history are adequate? It's possible to believe one or the other. But both? Simply not possible. John McCain has been -- what's the word? -- lying. And so have all the pundits who rushed to defend McCain's choice.


This is especially damning to McCain because his case for himself (besides not being Obama, a standard under which many of us might qualify) has rested on his honor and integrity. The North Vietnamese couldn't break him, and neither could the Brahmins of his own party in the Senate. He was a maverick who always told it straight.


So much for that.



Joel_heffner_max50

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Rate This | Posted 2 months ago

 

Although I'm not a McCain supporter, I find it disturbing to even use McCain, Communists, and Hitler in the same article. Some comparisions are not worth making.


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Oct0708_adj_max50

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Rate This | Posted 2 months ago

 

joelheffner says ...



Although I'm not a McCain supporter, I find it disturbing to even use McCain, Communists, and Hitler in the same article. Some comparisions are not worth making.



I found that same bit off-putting.


Children are the living messages we will send into a time we will not see. – John W. Whitehead

247b-1_max50

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Rated: +1 | Posted 2 months ago

 

 And it was the occasion of my learning something I'd previously been unaware of: Goodwin's Law:


 



"As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."



Godwin's Law is often cited in online discussions as a deterrent against the use of arguments in the reductio ad Hitlerum form.


The rule does not make any statement whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued[4] that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact. Although in one of its early forms Godwin's Law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[5] the law is now applied to any threaded online discussionelectronic mailing listsmessage boards,chat rooms, and more recently blog comment threads and wiki talk pages.


 


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law#History


 


And it's happened to Obama, too:




Fox News Radio host Tom Sullivan took a call from a listener who stated that when listening to Barack Obama speak, "it harkens back to when I was younger and I used to watch those deals with Hitler, how he would excite the crowd and they'd come to their feet and scream and yell." Sullivan then played a "side-by-side comparison" of a Hitler speech and an Obama speech. Sullivan mimicked the crowd during both speeches, yelling, "Yay! Yay!" When a later caller complained that Sullivan was "denigrating" Obama with the comparison, Sullivan said he wouldn't play it again, then begged: "Can I, please, one more time? Just one more time? Then I won't do it again. ... Until the next time."


Of course, this really isn't the first time we've heard Obama compared to Hitler. You may recall that just a few weeks ago, a right-wing racial nutcase in Australia named John Ray, while defending Jonah Goldberg against yours truly, observed the following:

In fact, with his constant inspirational calls for national unity, Obama is eerily reminiscent of the Fascists. If he spoke German he might well be inclined to adopt as his slogan Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer -- as Hitler did ("One nation, one government, one leader"). After all, right to the end most Germans saw Hitler as a warm and kindly father-figure. And if the ruthless power-seeker that is Hillary reminds you of Joe Stalin, don't blame me!

 

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2008/02/obama-equals-hitler.html

 


 

Joel_heffner_max50

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Rate This | Posted 2 months ago

 

John,


Too many of the readers of this forum are far younger than we are. Many probably only have a vague notion of who Hitler and Nazism were.


Let's remember that under Hitler's direct orders MILLIONS of people (many of whom were my relatives) were savagely murdered during and before World War II. By using a comparison of Hitler and McCain is just plain stupid and extremely insulting to McCain. Adding a discussion of some strange "Law" just clouds the issue even more.


In an era where there are still a shocking number of people who deny the Holocast ever happened, I think that rediculous comparisons like this only serve to confuse people even more.


Joel


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247b-1_max50

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Rate This | Posted 2 months ago

 

 Joel,


That "obscure law" is arguing your point, Joel


 


"Godwin has argued that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.


 


So, I'm sorry but I don't see how that "clouds the issue."

Me_max50

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Rate This | Posted 2 months ago

 

I am aware of the magnitude of Hitler and his actions. While I am in my early thirties, I wouldn't dare compare McCain to Hitler. Remember, I am a member of two often discriminated, to this day, groups; hence, I acknowledge the violent past and still present of such hateful wrongdoings.


The comparison is unfathomable.


 


joelheffner says ...



John,


Too many of the readers of this forum are far younger than we are. Many probably only have a vague notion of who Hitler and Nazism were.


Let's remember that under Hitler's direct orders MILLIONS of people (many of whom were my relatives) were savagely murdered during and before World War II. By using a comparison of Hitler and McCain is just plain stupid and extremely insulting to McCain. Adding a discussion of some strange "Law" just clouds the issue even more.


In an era where there are still a shocking number of people who deny the Holocast ever happened, I think that rediculous comparisons like this only serve to confuse people even more.


Joel



A witty woman is a treasure; a witty Beauty is a power.
Good teachers are costly, but bad teachers cost more. ~Bob Talbert

Joel_heffner_max50

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Rate This | Posted 2 months ago

 

 >>So, I'm sorry but I don't see how that "clouds the issue."<<


The issue that you have brought up basically is a comparison of McCain and Hitler. McCain is an honorable U.S. Senator with a record of service to the U.S. [You or I may disagree with him over policies, but I think we can agree that he is an honorable man.] As far as I know he was never involved in the mass murder of innocent by-standers. Hitler, on the other hand, was a mass murderer who intentionally tried to eliminate an entire religious group. When you put the two names together you tend to make McCain sound as though there is something about the two that can be compared. On the other hand, some can get the idea that Hitler was simply a person who might have gone too far, but was in an acceptable range of actions. Putting the two together, to me, might "cloud" the difference between the two of them.


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247b-1_max50

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Rate This | Posted 2 months ago

 

 Joel, this is getting ridiculous. I hope the "You" you are using when you write something such as this:


 


"When you put the two names together you tend to make McCain sound as though there is something about the two that can be compared."


 is the universal you, because I didn't write the darn article - which, by the way, was talking about the American Communist Party's about-face viv-a-vis Hitler. The ONLY comparison the author makes is one between the American Communist Party's attitude about Hitler before and after the Hitler/Stalin Pact and McCain's attitude about how vital experience is before and after the Palin nomination. How you got a comparison between Hitler and McCain completely baffles me. 


 And this was YOUR sentence:


 "Adding a discussion of some strange "Law" just clouds the issue even more."


 THAT'S what YOU originally wrote was "clouding the issue", NOT this:


"Putting the two together, to me, might "cloud" the difference between the two of them."


 And now, can we please stop this - I very much doubt the author intended to "compare" McCain and Hiltler since his comparison was all about the American Communist Party. And I certainly had NO design or intent to make such a comparison.


I'm very sorry if this article offended you.  I apologize. And can we now MOVE ON?